Herbie Member. Joined Jun 7, Messages 1, Did I hear that one right? Tarmander Member. Joined Apr 30, Messages 3, DaveFoster said:. Peat's right on the money unfortunately. Christianity inevitably leads to the conclusion that all humans beings are fundamentally identical. Joined Dec 8, Messages 2, Its true that Communism is top down and Christianity is bottom up, but Catholicism is by far the most hierarchical top-down organization ever invented.
Over a billion people all controlled by the volition of one man. Until now there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic Church. I transferred much of this organization into my own Nazi party. They used him to put a Jewish face on the upcoming revolutions but as with Hitler he was spoon fed his writings by the Jesuits.
It is the Jesuit strategy to created two opposing camps and then let them wage war with each other so that they will gain in the end. The Russian Tsar had persecuted them for hundreds of years so they were ripe for any change that was offered. They were betrayed because that was the plan from the beginning. Whenever the Jews are put into such highly visible positions of leadership it is almost always the Jesuits pulling their strings.
He, like most other Jews, was not a true insider and didn't realize that he too was just another useful idiot. You'll have to explain that one to me, because I see it exactly the opposite way.
At least modern Protestantism has the idea that all humans have an irredeemable level of Original Sin with no attenuation; one can only accept or reject Jesus. Jesus says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. With Evangelicalism, there's the inevitable proselytizing to other cultures whether American Indian, Latin Americans, Africans and so on, where Protestants strive for the homogenization of all respective cultures in line with the Christian worldview and lifestyle, not to say that other monotheistic religions including Islam refrain from the same attempt.
I think if you look at how I distinguished between top down and bottom up, it will clarify this a bit. Anything imposed in a top down way, as Communism was, or Catholicism, will have the element of enforcing a culture across people. I can see in that way how it might seem that Christianity and Marxism are similar in stamping out individuality. Marxism is very clear about overthrowing the Bourgeoisie, casting off your chains of exploitation, seizing the means of production, group over self, etc etc.
Christ says you should give to the poor, turn the other cheek, help those in need, and give to Caesar what is Caesar's. This last one is so important, it demolishes Christianity as a political system.
Maybe that is a bit of what Ray is doing here. You're saying that Christianity functions from the "bottom-up" without a given hierarchy, but whereas Catholicism enforces its hierarchy through people and real institutions the Catholic Church , Protestantism references the Bible an ideology as its master. It's a similar reference to power. You can't separate Catholicism and the Bible, but you can differentiate Protestantism.
Both can be adapted as sociopolitical systems. The "fire-and-brimstone" idea has lost such prevalence that it's become a humorous trope. It's useful to think of how these ideologies define their followers versus their deities.
In Christianity, "all fall short of the glory of God," so we're all classified as inferior to deity with no relationship to God. Christ acts as an intermediary between the inferior, human aspects of man and the divine qualities of God. In Catholicism, there's a hierarchy due to an association between priests and bishops with God, whereas all else remains separate as, "Creation" rather than the Creator, but even moreso with Saints, and lastly the Pope.
In certain pagan traditions and pantheism , there's less differentiation between deity, man and nature. For example, the introduction of mythologies, fusions of beast with man centaurs, nymphs and so on. There's also direct ties between human outcomes and deities as with Freyr, a Norse god of fertility , and there's a literal transmutation between deity and natural phenomena: Apollo as the literal carrier of the sun, for example.
I think you can definitely separate the bible and Catholicism. Why not? I can pick up the Bible and act out what Jesus says to do, right?
Can Marxism exist without the state? I would say the connection there is much stronger than the one between Jesus and Catholicism.
Your interpretation seems really off to me too. Not have a relationship with God? The whole story is basically a close relationship with God in paradise, and then a fall, and then a Son coming back to reignite that relationship to those who choose it. All individual choice and within you. Of course people can mangle it and start justifying all manner of things in the name of everyone being a fallen sinner. Or say the Caesar line is about giving to the state or something. Yeah, lots of criticism of religion, and it deserves it.
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